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No LibrePlanet organizers (staff or volunteer), speakers, award winners, exhibitors, or sponsors were made aware of Richard Stallman's announcement until it was public.

@fsf So, who made the decision? Maybe that decision should be re-thought.

@fsf It's a shame that the secretive insiders "buddy club" that is the FSF Board of Directors put personal friendships ahead of the good of Free Software and the good work of the FSF staff itself. (Not to mention LP contributors.)

Founders Syndrome is real and it can destroy even the most meaningful organizations.

@fsf

The decision to bring RMS back to FSF board is the right one! The injustice against RMS has been reduced!

@redstarfish @fsf did i get it right, he was kicked out because of some situation that has no relations to software. Lol

@redstarfish @fsf What injustice? How are you going to argue that people should still need to be around that creep?

@DanHakimi @fsf

The fact to he was forced to resign just because he expressed his personal views (not as FSF president) is an injustice.

You should stop maligning people based on false assumptions. What "creep"? Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't make anyone "creep".

Some people go too much into others' apperance.

@redstarfish @fsf He resigned because he got caught being a creep. He's not a creep because I disagree with him, he's a creep because he regularly says and does creepy things. He behaves creepily, particularly towards any woman stupid enough to go near him. That fact was never up for any debate. He's a creep.

@DanHakimi @fsf

It's your personal opinion. The word "creep" can mean anything to anyone. And doesn't have any factual basis.

@redstarfish @fsf I'd link you to some of the complaints, reports, stories, but really -- you've already seen it, haven't you? You don't care about the hard evidence, do you? Here's one article full fo them: selamjie.medium.com/remove-ric

@DanHakimi @fsf

I have the full email exchange. And I also this response article from civil-rights expert Nadine Strossen, former president of the ACLU defending rms: wetheweb.org/post/cancel-we-th

He's always called Epstein a "serial rapist".

@redstarfish @fsf Okay, so you've responded to one of the accusations in that thread, kind of, not really. What about the rest? What about twitter.com/corbett/status/994? Or twitter.com/starsandrobots/sta? Certainly, you saw a few others back in 2019, no?

@DanHakimi @fsf

You should provide link to some kind of twitter frontend. I am not going to load proprietary javascript just to read twitter posts.

@redstarfish @fsf you can load these in the twitter frontend of your choice. I tend to open twitter links in twidere, you do you, but don't pretend Stallman's not a creep just because you haven't read the complaints against him.

@DanHakimi @fsf

So this was your proof? Seriously? On it's basis you are talking bad about a person?

@redstarfish @DanHakimi @fsf Ah so you are responsible for the fucking mess that is LibreJS. Newsflash, no amount of LibreJS is not going to make you a dumbass.

@defcon201

Is it that you don't understand how websites work?
The software I run on my own computer is my choice. I am not going to run some software (especially proprietary in this case) just because the website sends it to me. It is nothing to do with LibreJS.

@DanHakimi @fsf

So RMS asked this women on a date and she refused. Asking person on a date *once* (she didn't mentioned he asked her repeatedly) is "creepy"?

....
"Rms hates plants?" (He doesn't).. I don't see anything wrong here.. Just not liking plants is "creepy" now?

See how the "creepy" is being streched too far.

@redstarfish @fsf Apparently you share his inability to process social cues. The problem in the first scenario is not that he asked a woman out; the problem is that he literally just asked her name, asked if she went to MIT, asked her out, and then stopped talking to her. That's a creepy fucking interaction. In the second -- it's not that he hates plants, it's that every woman on faculty had a plant to ward him off.

@DanHakimi

I think what he wants to do when someone rejected him on a date is his personal matter (as long as he didn't harass her)

If they have plants to ward him off, maybe they didn't like him. I don't see how this is *his* fault.

So if people stopped talking to me, and keeps snake at their door to ward me off, it's my fault now?

Sorry to say, if this the best you've got, I think your grudge against him is personal, and you are using this occasion to bad mouth him.

@redstarfish Okay, for the future, try talking to a woman before you ask her out. And for the future, if everybody around you has something in her office specifically to ward you off, maybe consider the possibility that this relates to the one common denominator. If everybody you know keeps a snake to ward you off, you need to stop and try to understand what you did to cause that reaction.

@redstarfish @DanHakimi so Selam G is behind all the evil because she thought she found a cause

@DanHakimi @redstarfish @fsf

1) Asking a woman out is only creepy depending on the man doing the asking. Stallman is no prize, so it would be creepy, but there is nothing wrong with asking a woman out instantly.

2) Do you really believe that the only reason those people had plants in their offices, an extremely common occurrence, was for him? How naive are you?

@DanHakimi i think the response was to a fabrication that you are mistaking to be an accusation. rehash of other old stuff conveniently distracts from the fact that this all started with a fabrication.

The responsible way? Ponder why the creeps who piled on #RMS didn't do so earlier, without piggy-backing on a fabrication.

They could have built an "inclusive" "diverse" (but without RMS) space, assuming they can walk the talk.

@redstarfish @fsf

@wyatwerp @fsf @redstarfish I'm not sure what you're trying to say except that you don't understand that, sometimes, it's hard for people to come out about harassment -- perhaps it has something to do with all the assholes who are jumping down their throats for doing it now! -- and that you think these people *should* have been pushed out of the Free Software community and just started their own, tertiary Free Software community instead.

@wyatwerp @fsf @redstarfish If you're trying to accuse somebody of fabricating a story, perhaps you should specify which story it is you don't believe.

@DanHakimi
> hard for people to come out about harassment

What harassment? This is what that fabrication has accomplished: establishing fiction as fact.

> If you're trying to accuse somebody of fabricating a story, perhaps you should specify which story it is you don't believe.

Whichever story you said was disproved while others weren't. That disproved story is what everybody piggy-backed on.

@fsf @redstarfish

@wyatwerp @fsf @redstarfish "Whichever story you said was disproved while others weren't. That disproved story is what everybody piggy-backed on." -- What? I have no idea what you're talking about.

@wyatwerp @fsf @redstarfish You're telling me that everything in that toot was a lie. Everything, generally. There were a few dozen statements in there, maybe you want to show how... one of them, to start, was a lie.

@DanHakimi is this how cancel culture works? repeatedly quote third-party comments, make other people quote first-party statements (that third parties wouldn't link to, because it would invalidate their comments)?

it is so straight-forward to see that #RMS defended per late respected friend against feeble failed attempts to malign per. fabricating that as a "wrong" was crucial to rehashing his dog-old views on social reforms.

@fsf @redstarfish

@wyatwerp @fsf @redstarfish ... wow, you gotta work on your English. I can't tell what you're saying, except that you're not willing to explain which claims you think are lies, or why you think they're lies.

@DanHakimi well, you need to work on your event timelines.

the brouhaha about per defending per late MIT colleague against distorted court statements that maligned per friend, is what a horde of people piggy-backed on, to trot out per old statements to cancel him.

If you haven't come his puah for using "per" instead of "his/her", you either don't know enough yet, or don't want to acknowledge his wacky way of pushing diversity.

@fsf @redstarfish

@wyatwerp @fsf @redstarfish I caught on that you were using "per" in place of gendered pronouns. I still can't figure out what in the hell you're saying.

@wyatwerp @fsf @DanHakimi @redstarfish They didn't do it earlier because they bully socially and legally you into silence. It's classic cult behavior. Just ask any ex-FSF employees many of them surrounded by red tape. Also, proof of the fabrication? You going to render every criticism against RMS invalid. Stallman is not Jesus you cultist.

@defcon201 what has gotten into you? make sense, whether you spew vitriol or not.

why wouldn't "everybody" have abandoned the FSF decades ago if it was a cult? what "forced" them to contribute to GNU?

weren't per e-mails defending a late friend against slandering, twisted to fabricate "rape apologist" infamy? aren't they crooks, force-fitting per commentary on subjective social practices to the issue?

@fsf @DanHakimi @redstarfish

@DanHakimi @redstarfish @fsf Here is the abortion joke: 25.7.4 Aborting a Program Future Change Warning: Proposed Federal censorship regulations may prohibit us from giving you information about the possibility of calling this function. We would be required to say that this is not an acceptable way of terminating a program.

That is what some were upset about?

@DanHakimi @redstarfish @fsf because she claims he asked her on a date, he becomes a creep? Lol

@DanHakimi @redstarfish @fsf I don’t think there’s a lot of ‘hard’ evidence in there. The article you link to quotes Stallman and then goes on to say:

…and then he says that an enslaved child could, somehow, be “entirely willing”.

…even though the quote clearly shows him not saying that. Opening the criticism by deliberately twisting someone’s words does not inspire confidence in the author’s judgement. They later wrote an appendix, which quotes testaments from other people, but I find those dubious as well:

I recall being told early in my freshman year “If RMS hits on you, just say ‘I’m a vi user’ even if it’s not true.”

This sounds more like an over-the-top running joke than anything.

He literally used to have a mattress on the floor of his office. He kept the door to his office open, to proudly showcase that mattress and all the implications that went with it.

Is it that surprising to have a mattress in a place where you live? And from a tweet you linked to:

I remember being walked around campus by an upperclassman getting advice during my freshman year at MIT. “Look at all the plants in her office,” referring to a professor. “All the women CSAIL professors keep massive amounts of foliage” s/he said. “Stallman really hates plants.”

Well, according to another one, ‘In the closet-sized “office” Bushnell, McGrath, and I shared for a time we did have some spider plants as part of a running silly joke. They did not actually scare RMS away OF COURSE and he usually had helpful criticism and advice of our efforts, from my point of view. ’

Now I’m not saying Stallman has done nothing wrong; some of the other remarks do raise more concern. But saying ‘hard evidence’ when pointing to a collection where some of the points seem to be overblown or misinterpreted, and others are just blatantly false, make me seriously doubt how much of this should be taken at face value.

From the actual facts and more trustworthy testimonies we have on Stallman’s behaviour, I see how you may find it uncomfortable or ‘creepy’ (though I agree with @redstarfish that ‘creepy’ is very subjective). And I agree it can reflect poorly on the whole movement when a lot of people feel that way about its public face.

That said, I would presume just being on the board of directors doesn’t make him a public face of the movement, and I don’t think someone being ‘creepy’ is a valid reason to fully exclude them from a community at all (as some have previously insinuated).

@redstarfish @DanHakimi @fsf Now you sound like someone who stormed the capitol on Jan 6. Fucking cult.

@DanHakimi We were just using an extreme example for the cult like behavior.

@redstarfish @fsf On top of that, he was a shitty representative for the movement. He introduced us to good principles, and explained why we should commit to those principles, and then he spent the past few decades pushing people away from those principles with his grating, creepy personality. We should have a leader in charge, not just the first programmer to get to the punch.

@DanHakimi @fsf

Who stopped you from getting in charge? Create your own organisation and spread the ideas about software freedom. It's been 37 years, I don't see *your* organisation or *you* fighting for software freedom.

@redstarfish @fsf You haven't seen me fighting for software freedom (before now) because you haven't been following me. But you see me fighting for it now. Nobody stopped me from "getting" in charge of the FSF, but it's a Boston-based organization, and I'm a New York guy. I'd love to be counsel for the SFC or SFLC if my career gets to that point.

@DanHakimi @fsf

Wait for it then. I am sure all the injustices with proprietary software has been stopped, waiting for you to get to the perfect place in your "carrier".

@redstarfish @fsf No, I would prefer not to wait, I'm going to continue fighting in the meantime. I really hope we can continue recruiting people despite the number of creeps we continue to humor, but I think we'd be better off without the creep in question.

@redstarfish @DanHakimi @fsf He is the FSF President and is their celebrity and mascot. Put it this way, if Zuckerberg had the same shitty opinions would you defend him even though it would have had nothing to do with Facebook? Stop licking boot.

@defcon201 @redstarfish @DanHakimi @fsf the fact that Zuckerberg seems unable to respond to anything by himself is exactly the reason people like RMS should be allowed to exist.
Besides, whats do you want him to do? Abide to society? Would free software even be a thing if everyone does that?

@DanHakimi @redstarfish @fsf you don't have to be around him you fucking idiot. Go start your own movement if you don't like him. God your sophistry is fucking intolerable

@fsf I'm going to ask, as well: whose idea was it to bring him back and why?

@fsf Are the minutes of the Board meeting where the decision to reappoint public? It seems clear the Board knew they were doing something most LP supporters would hate; what was discussed?

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