@adnan360 @fsf The best #systemdfree Linux distribuitiuon is Devuan

@linuxoid @fsf Devuan is good too. Unless I'm setting up a server, I usually choose Devuan if I ever have to use a Debian distro. I have a Devuan install lying around.

I've installed Linux-libre on it to have a reasonably libre setup: https://notabug.org/adnan360/code-backups/src/master/linux/install-linux-libre-on-devuan.md

@fsf @adnan360 I haven't heard of Ymir. I use my own patched variant of Void Linux, with LibreSSL (they switched to OpenSSL in spring). maybe I should look at it too.

@fsf @adnan360 oh, they're labelled GNU and I'm afraid they'd use Gnome, while I try to get rid of it in my build.

@iron_bug @fsf I think GNU is there just to say GNU/Linux, nothing else. I use a Openbox setup with Ymir and it doesn't need anything GNOME related.

@iron_bug @fsf Yeah, go ahead. As far as I know Ymir is just Void with minor patches in packages and Linux-libre as kernel. So your patches should be able to apply without issues.

@fsf @adnan360 I didn't use proprietary drivers myself, but I haven't yet tried Linux-libre. I think I should try it.

@iron_bug @fsf That's great.

On the right hardware, you shouldn't even notice that you're running Linux-libre. I think you'll be fine. But if you want to be more sure, you can run Trisquel live environment with a USB stick and check everything to be sure (since Trisquel uses Linux-libre too).

@fsf @adnan360 the problem is my build used musl. this might need some more patches. though, I don't think that this would touch anything connected to Linux-libre.

@iron_bug @fsf I've heard people using the musl build. I wish to try it some time. How is it? Are there less packages? Any limitations?

@fsf @adnan360 I build packages myself, if I need any. and I'm a fan of suckless approach, so I don't use many fat packages that people usually miss. I can say there're eveything for work as a programmer. I don't have complaints but I can fix bugs if I find them.

from the point of view of a programmer musl is more restrictive (actually, it does not anything like memory cleanup by default) and thus things like non-initialized values or memory blocks often failure when a program written for glibc is built with musl. this often needs patching and I know many such typical errors. but musl is much more slim than glibc. it takes significantly less memory for work. although, it's also a little slower, but in a scale like 1-2% and for simple tests that can be performed with plain algorithms. practically, for average software I cannot notice any slowering down. but I use quite compact and well-optimized software so it's not anything that makes a problem with speed, usually.

musl also doesn't have some development tools integrated in glibc. this was done for optimization. it's very fast when works with memory. but this means some things like gperf and memory allocation overloads, as well as in-built performance counters won't work. though, common tools like perf perf work fine. I get used to the tools that are available for musl, actually. but some people may find this awkward.

@fsf @adnan360 and yes, different "sanitizers" don't work in musl either. I never considered them anything useful because we lived for decades without them and it was fine. but anyway. this may scare script kids and mommy's hackers :)

@iron_bug @fsf Lots of good info you mentioned here. Will have to try it in order to fully understand what it can do for me. I don't know almost anything about glibc/musl. But something tells me I'll like it.

@fsf @adnan360 musl is often used in different embedded devices.

@iron_bug @fsf I didn't know that.

Also heard about uclibc somewhere. I don't remember where. What do you think about uclibc?

@fsf @adnan360 I had seen it in OpenWRT but didn't dig much into it. also some compact realization of libc but not sure about the exact differences.